If you were Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
|
Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as K on June 13, 2005, 12:08 pm
mlw wrote:
> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
>
> Sigh, this is where this whole sub-thread started. Have we not covered any
> ground? There are three clasifications of lead acid batteries, starting,
> marine, and deep cycle. Depending on the internal construction and
> materials used, deep cycle lead-acid (sealed or otherwise) have variable
> discharge depths, but they are classified as deep cycle.
Yes -- deep cyle lead acid batteries are indeed classified as deep cycle
lead acid batteries. Did you mean all gell-cells or AGMs?
>
> We have discussed chargers, storage, internal construction, materials, etc.
> already let us not do it again.
It's usenet, new guy -- get used to not being in charge of the discussion.
>
>
>>My guess is that a major factor in the poor performance of UPS batteries
>>(when installed in the UPS) is lousy charge circuitry, not the battery
>>itself.
>
>
> I 100% agree, but don't discount temperature and voltage spikes.
>
>
>>I've certainly abused the crap out of mine -- but it may be that
>>a prompt, 3-stage recharge staves off permanent sulfation. I have never,
>>ever, left these batteries for long in a discharged state, although I
>>have on occasion discharged them to the point that they show 8 and 1/2
>>volts or so connected to a load.
>
>
> Is that 8 1/2 volts under load? Why is it when the load is disconnected?
> Most of the battery volt measurements assume no load.
From memory, still a tad under 9, once around 9.2. Again, this is from
memory -- lately I don't check. I'm note even sure the regulator still
functions (much) at that point, but (again) I've never checked.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
|
Posted by mlw on June 13, 2005, 9:10 am
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> mlw wrote:
>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
>>
>> Sigh, this is where this whole sub-thread started. Have we not covered
>> any ground? There are three clasifications of lead acid batteries,
>> starting, marine, and deep cycle. Depending on the internal construction
>> and materials used, deep cycle lead-acid (sealed or otherwise) have
>> variable discharge depths, but they are classified as deep cycle.
>
> Yes -- deep cyle lead acid batteries are indeed classified as deep cycle
> lead acid batteries. Did you mean all gell-cells or AGMs?
If they are not classified as Marine or for starting applications they are
"deep cycle," and of course, some are deeper than others.
>
>>
>> We have discussed chargers, storage, internal construction, materials,
>> etc. already let us not do it again.
>
> It's usenet, new guy -- get used to not being in charge of the discussion.
I'm not a "new guy" on usenet.
>
>>
>>
>>>My guess is that a major factor in the poor performance of UPS batteries
>>>(when installed in the UPS) is lousy charge circuitry, not the battery
>>>itself.
>>
>>
>> I 100% agree, but don't discount temperature and voltage spikes.
>>
>>
>>>I've certainly abused the crap out of mine -- but it may be that
>>>a prompt, 3-stage recharge staves off permanent sulfation. I have never,
>>>ever, left these batteries for long in a discharged state, although I
>>>have on occasion discharged them to the point that they show 8 and 1/2
>>>volts or so connected to a load.
>>
>>
>> Is that 8 1/2 volts under load? Why is it when the load is disconnected?
>> Most of the battery volt measurements assume no load.
>
> From memory, still a tad under 9, once around 9.2. Again, this is from
> memory -- lately I don't check. I'm note even sure the regulator still
> functions (much) at that point, but (again) I've never checked.
>
That 9volts is under load correct? What is it when it is not under load?
|
|
Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as K on June 13, 2005, 1:04 pm
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> mlw wrote:
>
>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
>> Sigh, this is where this whole sub-thread started. Have we not covered
>> any
>> ground? There are three clasifications of lead acid batteries, starting,
>> marine, and deep cycle. Depending on the internal construction and
>> materials used, deep cycle lead-acid (sealed or otherwise) have variable
>> discharge depths, but they are classified as deep cycle.
>
>
> Yes -- deep cyle lead acid batteries are indeed classified as deep cycle
> lead acid batteries. Did you mean all gell-cells or AGMs?
Nevermind --- I get it. But I believe the number of cycles comes into
play as well as the depth. The term "deep-cycle" also appears to be
somewhat malleable.
>
>> We have discussed chargers, storage, internal construction, materials,
>> etc.
>> already let us not do it again.
>
>
> It's usenet, new guy -- get used to not being in charge of the discussion.
>
I should also note that the discussion has actually been useful for me
-- as it turns out, I had another look at those batteries. The prefix
part number is "LC", not "LG" as I wrote. The 5ah is no longer
manufactured (but you can still find the specs in the discontinued
section -- look for LC-R125P), but the 7ah is an LC-R127R2P.
As it turns out, both of these are AGM-based, not ordinary gell-cells as
I had assumed (and as H&R sold them as). The panasonic VRLA line appears
to be designed for both standby AND motive applications, and are
probably true deep-cycle.
A 5 year or better lifetime for these batteries at room temperature is
an entirely reasonable expectation according to the specs. The stated
lifetime of the LC line is actually 6-10 years using the stated
discharge assumptions.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
|
Posted by mlw on June 13, 2005, 9:27 am
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
>> mlw wrote:
>>
>>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
>>> Sigh, this is where this whole sub-thread started. Have we not covered
>>> any
>>> ground? There are three clasifications of lead acid batteries, starting,
>>> marine, and deep cycle. Depending on the internal construction and
>>> materials used, deep cycle lead-acid (sealed or otherwise) have variable
>>> discharge depths, but they are classified as deep cycle.
>>
>>
>> Yes -- deep cyle lead acid batteries are indeed classified as deep cycle
>> lead acid batteries. Did you mean all gell-cells or AGMs?
>
> Nevermind --- I get it. But I believe the number of cycles comes into
> play as well as the depth. The term "deep-cycle" also appears to be
> somewhat malleable.
"deep cycle" as it is used is sort of a catch-all for non-marine and
non-starting batteries. Starting and marine batteries as designed for very
low internal resistance, starting more so, of course.
>
>
>>
>>> We have discussed chargers, storage, internal construction, materials,
>>> etc.
>>> already let us not do it again.
>>
>>
>> It's usenet, new guy -- get used to not being in charge of the
>> discussion.
>>
>
> I should also note that the discussion has actually been useful for me
> -- as it turns out, I had another look at those batteries. The prefix
> part number is "LC", not "LG" as I wrote. The 5ah is no longer
> manufactured (but you can still find the specs in the discontinued
> section -- look for LC-R125P), but the 7ah is an LC-R127R2P.
Got them.
>
> As it turns out, both of these are AGM-based, not ordinary gell-cells as
> I had assumed (and as H&R sold them as). The panasonic VRLA line appears
> to be designed for both standby AND motive applications, and are
> probably true deep-cycle.
What is "true" deep cycle? Some batteries will cycle deeper and more often
than others, but that does not mean other batteries are not "deep cycle."
There are many SUV vehicals, and some are better than others, but that does
not mean the others are not SUVs.
>
> A 5 year or better lifetime for these batteries at room temperature is
> an entirely reasonable expectation according to the specs.
According to the specs the life is 3~5 years on a trickle charger at 25C,
and approx 5 years at 20C. I would take the 5 years life as a best case
scenario.
> The stated
> lifetime of the LC line is actually 6-10 years using the stated
> discharge assumptions.
I see no reason to make that assumption.
>
|
|
Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as K on June 13, 2005, 1:56 pm
mlw wrote:
> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
>
>
>>As it turns out, both of these are AGM-based, not ordinary gell-cells as
>>I had assumed (and as H&R sold them as). The panasonic VRLA line appears
>>to be designed for both standby AND motive applications, and are
>>probably true deep-cycle.
>
>
>
> What is "true" deep cycle? Some batteries will cycle deeper and more often
> than others, but that does not mean other batteries are not "deep cycle."
> There are many SUV vehicals, and some are better than others, but that does
> not mean the others are not SUVs.
>
>
>
>>A 5 year or better lifetime for these batteries at room temperature is
>>an entirely reasonable expectation according to the specs.
>
>
> According to the specs the life is 3~5 years on a trickle charger at 25C,
> and approx 5 years at 20C. I would take the 5 years life as a best case
> scenario.
Look again -- not for the LC part numbers. You're looking at the specs
for the
>
>
>
>>The stated
>>lifetime of the LC line is actually 6-10 years using the stated
>>discharge assumptions.
>
>
> I see no reason to make that assumption.
>
>
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 > last >>
Related Posts
Latest Posts
|
|
Yahoo! 
Google 
Windows Live 
del.icio.us 
digg 
Netscape 
XML site map
>
> Sigh, this is where this whole sub-thread started. Have we not covered any
> ground? There are three clasifications of lead acid batteries, starting,
> marine, and deep cycle. Depending on the internal construction and
> materials used, deep cycle lead-acid (sealed or otherwise) have variable
> discharge depths, but they are classified as deep cycle.