Hunter Killer Robot

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Subject Author Date
Hunter Killer Robot pogo 12-14-2008
---> Re: Hunter Killer Robot John F. Eldredg...12-14-2008
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Posted by Ben Bradley on December 16, 2008, 12:43 pm
On 15 Dec 2008 08:02:02 GMT, curt@kcwc.com (Curt Welch) wrote:

>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:37:16 +0000, steamer wrote:
>> > --This thing's been around in one form or another for over a decade;
>> > it's old Reagan era tech but it's looking a little more sophisticated
>> > now. IIRC it's intended to be an *orbital* kill vehicle; i.e. if fired
>> > into the right orbit all it's gotta do is line itself up and, at a
>> > closing velocity of several miles per second, achieve a 'kinetic kill';
>> > no explosives needed. Supposed to be launched in swarms, too.
>> If it is intended to ram into its target, then why did it appear to be
>> firing guns in multiple directions? The flame from the underside
>> appeared to be a rocket engine; the brief flames going in other
>> directions looked, and sounded like, gunfire.
>Nah, I don't think so. The flames elsewhere were just stabilizer rockets
>keeping it pointed upright and making it move right and left. They were
>pulsing like that because they probably can't be adjusted for thrust. They
>are either on (full thrust) or off (no thrust) so the control system has to
>pulse them like that to keep the device stable.

I wonder why the main engine wasn't put on a gimbal and it
controlled that way, though perhaps the multiple rockets and on/off
valves are more reliable.

>The film was called "hover
>test" so it's clearly just a prototype to test to see if the control system
>could make it hover and move back and forth - which it did very nicely
>until it was turned off (or maybe just ran out of fuel).


Posted by David McMillan on December 19, 2008, 2:40 pm
Ben Bradley wrote:
> On 15 Dec 2008 08:02:02 GMT, curt@kcwc.com (Curt Welch) wrote:
>
>>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:37:16 +0000, steamer wrote:
>>>> --This thing's been around in one form or another for over a decade;
>>>> it's old Reagan era tech but it's looking a little more sophisticated
>>>> now. IIRC it's intended to be an *orbital* kill vehicle; i.e. if fired
>>>> into the right orbit all it's gotta do is line itself up and, at a
>>>> closing velocity of several miles per second, achieve a 'kinetic kill';
>>>> no explosives needed. Supposed to be launched in swarms, too.
>>> If it is intended to ram into its target, then why did it appear to be
>>> firing guns in multiple directions? The flame from the underside
>>> appeared to be a rocket engine; the brief flames going in other
>>> directions looked, and sounded like, gunfire.
>> Nah, I don't think so. The flames elsewhere were just stabilizer rockets
>> keeping it pointed upright and making it move right and left. They were
>> pulsing like that because they probably can't be adjusted for thrust. They
>> are either on (full thrust) or off (no thrust) so the control system has to
>> pulse them like that to keep the device stable.
>
> I wonder why the main engine wasn't put on a gimbal and it
> controlled that way, though perhaps the multiple rockets and on/off
> valves are more reliable.

    Faster. Reaction times are far lower. Plus, no rotational inertia to
deal with. Note that each thruster is mounted to thrust directly
through the center of gravity of the vehicle. Given that it's intended
to attack a target via hit-to-kill at truly ludicrous closing speeds,
the guidance system needs to be capable of making lots of very small
velocity vector changes *very* rapidly.
    In a real scenario, it would be be operating in a free-fall
environment, so there wouldn't be any "hover" thrust going continuously.
All the thrusters would be pulsing as needed to keep the target in the
crosshairs. Conceptually, it's a very simple guidance system, but
getting it to work dependably and quickly enough must have been a huge
challenge.

>> The film was called "hover
>> test" so it's clearly just a prototype to test to see if the control system
>> could make it hover and move back and forth - which it did very nicely
>> until it was turned off (or maybe just ran out of fuel).
>


Posted by steamer on December 15, 2008, 12:16 pm
>If it is intended to ram into its target, then why did it appear to be
>firing guns in multiple directions? The flame from the underside
>appeared to be a rocket engine; the brief flames going in other
>directions looked, and sounded like, gunfire.
    --Those are thrusters; that's what they sound like. Noise not an
issue in a vacuum, heh.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Never thought I'd live to see
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : our "iron curtain" crumble...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Posted by Curt Welch on December 15, 2008, 2:55 am
> --This thing's been around in one form or another for over a
> decade; it's old Reagan era tech but it's looking a little more
> sophisticated now. IIRC it's intended to be an *orbital* kill vehicle;
> i.e. if fired into the right orbit all it's gotta do is line itself up
> and, at a closing velocity of several miles per second, achieve a
> 'kinetic kill'; no explosives needed. Supposed to be launched in swarms,
> too.

Doesn't seem likely that is what it was designed for.

Why would they design a device that could hover at ground level if it was
indented for use in space? It takes much stronger rockets and complex
stability systems to achieve hover at ground level which has nothing to do
with the guidance needed to track and intercept a satellite or rocket in
orbit. I don't think that film is a demonstration of something intended to
be used in space.

In another post, someone talked about "which direction it fired". It
wasn't firing anything except stabilizer rockets in the film.

I'm thinking that video was of a concept device that could work more like a
cruse missile except not have the limitation of needing to maintain speed
for flight so the thing could fly around corners and through doors and down
the steps into a bunker, or deep into a cave or wherever it needed to go to
follow and locate the bad guys.

Whether it was intended to carry weapons like guns or whether it was just a
flying bomb like a cruse missile was not possible to tell from the video.
Rocket power however can't last long for something like that (a few minutes
at most) so it's range would be very limited and refueling would probably
not be easy enough to be practical on the battlefield so I'm thinking the
idea is a use-once smart-bomb type of device which would be remotely
operated.

But maybe the idea is to put guns on it and have it fly into a building
(shooting down doors if need be), to hunt down and kill a sniper for
example without taking out the whole block. It would probably work much
better in tight quarters than a helicopter like device - no rotor blades to
get damaged or tangled in obstructions. It might even have enough power to
simply break though a closed door by ramming it. That would be scary as
hell to hear something as loud as that coming after you and have it break
through the door of the room you were hiding in or come crashing through a
closed window and then start to hover and spin around looking for you.

It really does look like some type of probe from Star Wars.

--
Curt Welch http://CurtWelch.Com/
curt@kcwc.com http://NewsReader.Com/

Posted by steamer on December 15, 2008, 12:17 pm
    --For a good time google "brilliant pebbles"; IIRC that was the
original name for this device..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Never thought I'd live to see
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : our "iron curtain" crumble...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

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